Crusade of Great Intention (was: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?)

January 16, 2008, 12:47:46 pm

#1

Peter van Dalen

Shining Something

Posts: 142

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Crusade of Great Intention (was: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?)

Before I started Dark Resurrection in Blitz3D, I was busy programming a remake of "Herzog Zwei" .
It was one of the first RTS-games (if not THE first) , and that's in 1989, waaayy before Dune II.

Anyway, there were a number of things that stopped me from completing it. Group-AI and pathfinding for example.
Now that I finally started to understand A* pathfinding, it doesn't seem to be that difficult anymore.
My first thoughts were to finish Herzog Zwei alongside Dark Resurrection.
(Trust me , when you work too long on -a part of- a game, you're beginning to lose focus on what you're doing)
That is why I switch from programming to studying character-animation , and from character-modelling to texturing & skinning.

Ahem..., to cut a long story short ..., it could be fun to alter Herzog Zwei into a Shining Force RTS.
It could even be more fun if this was a group effort.

Someone could focus on writing the story and another one could design the campaign.

Maybe there could be an option to play the good guys as well as the bad guys ?
And who wants to do the balancing, in order to finetune the units and/or buildings ?
I could write the program in Blitz3D. It can be either 2D or 3D.
My code-library is literally overflowing with specific functions.

Code that can already be used:

1 - Unit selection by drawing a rectangle with the mouse.
2 - assigning unit to function keys (CTRL + F1,F2,F3 etc etc).
3 - double-clicking a specific unit will select all units on screen.
4 - left-click a unit will select/de-select a unit.
5 - right-click a selected unit will move that unit to the clicked position.
6 - build-timers to represent the -length of the- construction of a unit.
7 - saving & loading of data of units if you decide to quit during play.

For units , we could take a number of characters with specific abilities and/or specific weapons

Here are some ideas:

Code:

Player-Units:
-------------
5 of 6 player-units each with his/her own profiency.

Possible capabilities:

1 - extra defense
2 - healing capabilities
3 - extra movement-speed
4 - better skilled in short range weapons
5 - better skilled in mid range weapons
6 - better skilled in long range weapons

Groups will consist of up to 9 units.
Each unit-type will have his own movement-speed, but when a group has mixed units,
its combined movement will drop to the speed of the slowest-unit within that group.

It is possible to have a group with mixed units (for example 2 archers , 1 priest , 3 knights & 3 dwarfs )
When you attach a player-unit to a group, then a number of statistics (if not all) will be affected.
Let's say that I have a group with 4 archers , 1 priest and 4 dwarfs.
I'll attach a player-unit that is proficient with a bow.
This will affect all archers in this group.

Or you can attach a player-unit with healing capabilities that affects all units within that group.

Normal Units:
-------------
1 - Priests with offensive spells
2 - Wizard with defensive spells
3 - Archers with long range weapons (arrows)
4 - Knights with mid range weapons (javelins or spears ,.... no..... not britney spears.. :) )
5 - Dwarfs with short range weapons (axes and/or swords )
6 - Sniper (very long range, very expensive ;) )

Mechanized units:
-----------------
1 - Big Arrow-Launchers
2 - Laser Eyes
3 - Mecha dragon
4 - Cyborgs

A super unit for each side:
---------------------------
1 - Volcanon
2 - Zeon (or Lucifer or Dark Dragon)

Buildings - overview:
---------------------
1 Castle - your main building
2 Weaponsmith - forge mithril- weapons and\or armor
3 Church - bring back the fallen player-units
4 Mine - ...erm ... mine the mithril
5 Barracks - training the "short range" weapon users
6 Keep - training the "mid range" weapon users
7 Archery - training the "long range" weapon users
8 Mill - process wood for building ...errr.. buildings
9 Forest Hut - chop wood
10 Shrine - summon your super-unit
11 Masonry - process stone for buildings
12 Spell Tower - research new spell-levels , spell-efficiency , extend spell-range
13 Laboratory - research new ways for being more efficient with resources. (do more with less)
14 Shop - buy extra personal defense-items

Building-Tech-Tree:
-------------------
Castle Lv1 - 1 barracks
- 2 weaponsmith
- 3 masonry
- 4 forest hut
- 5 mine
- 6 mill

If you have all of these buildings then you are eligible to construct:

Castle Lv2 - 7 church
- 8 keep
- 9 shop

If you have all of these buildings then you are eligible to construct:

Castle Lv3 - 10 archery
- 11 spell-tower
- 12 shrine
- 13 laboratory

All buildings have their own efficiency level.
If a building has a high efficiency-level then it will cost less to produce units from it.

Lv 1 : 10% less construction costs
Lv 2 : 20% less construction costs
Lv 3 : 30% less construction costs

Shop:
-----
Bracelets
Rings
Shields

Player can buy these items for their player-units.

Items can affect:
1 - movement-speed
2 - rate of HP-point regeneration
3 - rate of Spell-point regeneration
4 - increase sphere of command
5 - ????

Spells:
-------
1 - Fire
2 - Ice
3 - Lightning ( Bolt ?)
4 - Earth
5 - Holy
6 - Dark
7 - ????

Spell-points are automatically regenerating.
New spell-levels are researched in the Spell-Tower.
Player can find rare spell-books in missions.

Resources:
----------
Gold - mine gold to buy units & construct buildings
Mithril - mine mithril for the best armor
Wood - chop wood for constructing buildings
Iron - mine iron for making normal armor
Stone - cut stone for constructing buildings

Mission-Types:
--------------
1 - reconnaissance
2 - basic "expand base & defeat enemy"
3 - convoy
4 - take defensive position
5 - search & destroy
6 - search & rescue
7 - stealth mission
8 - a combination of one or more of the above :D

Pff. now that's a long post. Cheesy

Again, these are just ideas., so everything can be changed. Cheesy

So, when you're up for it, just let me know ok ?

Cheers,

Peter

Love is Grand , Divorce ..... a hundred Grand

January 18, 2008, 04:54:30 am

#2

Elvenfyre

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

I owned Herzog Zwei on Megadrive, and my brother and I loved it, not only mano e mano, but also against the computer. It was a very well balanced game.

I'm happy to do something to help Peter, whatever you would prefer.

The only thing I noticed that I have a comment about at this point:
It would be nice to get away from the resources of normal RTS with gold, lumber etc - but there are benefits to using them(people know what they are for). However it could be a good discussion topic.

This page has some nice links and a tutorial on the game herzog zwei for those who haven't played it.
http://www.fiction.net/~jeske/Projects/HZ/hz_tutorial.html

~Elvenfyre

January 18, 2008, 12:38:52 pm

#3

Peter van Dalen

Shining Something

Posts: 142

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

Well, I've played Herzog Zwei to death. It is an awesome game, and it has some great music too. I still have the game and play the music from time to time .

Project 2612 ( http://project2612.org/index.php ) has the music in the archives. They are currently trying to find a new host, so it is possible that not all files are ready for downloading.
(You have been warned! Cheesy

)

-#-

As for the resource model - We could mimic the procedure from Herzog Zwei ?
For each base under your control (including your main base ) you get a certain amount of credits (per second).

-#-

Also, to capture a base, you had to send 4 infantry to effectively get it under your control.
We could make it so, that not only the units will capture the base , but also defend it.

This way you could have some great battles, because you would have to fight for each occupied base in order to capture it.

-#-

We can still include the mithril though.

Just always position one base near a mithril-deposit.
If you've captured the base then instead of credits, you receive mithril. (......just a thought

)

As for the rest of the buildings,.. we could always "buy" them , yes?

-#-

Anyway, for a good start of this project:

I think it would be a good idea to start with the story.

- Introduce the main characters, locations & period when it happens, etc.
- Explain the reason why they are fighting.. and who.

If you would like to start with drawing a map (1024x1024 px) for the first mission, then that would be great too.

I'll start piecing together the main program.

-#-

About the Mapsize:

The maximum dimension for a battle-map in Dark Resurrection is a grid of 400x400 tiles. The tiles have a size of 2 (blitz3d-)units , so I can assure you, these are very large maps!!

You see.., the AI has to figure out a path to its destination. It returns a "1" if a path has been found , and "2" if a path is non-existent.

When it returns a "2" then the AI has already checked the ENTIRE grid of 400x400 tiles.
That's why I treat this size as a maximum (for now).

On a P4 with 1G memory it's almost an immediate return, so that's good thing.

-#-

About the Buildings:

There are a number of buildings (made many moons ago) I can use as a placeholder, so I can get a feeling on how to work on them. These are early previous versions of models I made for Dark Resurrection. So they will do just fine

.

For example:

1- Where to place a building, and perform a check if you place the building.
2- "Hitpoints"of a building
3- Using the numerous "build-timers" to represent the unit-construction
4- Check how far the player is in the "tech-tree", so he can actually build the thing.

-#-

About the Units:

On my harddrive I still have the sprites of SFII, so I could use these as placeholder for the moment.
It certainly looks much better than a bunch of white cubes and spheres. Cheesy

Recently I've bought a few books on how draw characters in manga-style.
These were bought to make character-references for Dark Resurrection.
There are enough ideas in these books to create new characters in Shining RTS

This is not going to be the definitive title.
Maybe something like: Crusade of Great Intention (just of the top of my head Cheesy

)

-#-

About the AI:

I can safely say that the AI, in its current state, works great.
Just modifying it for group-AI and alternative pathfinding for choke-points.

-#-

Bits & Bobs:

It's probably a good thing to already think about unit-acknowledgements.
You know the drill:

"yes sir"
"acknowledged"
"moving out"

Maybe a bit like C&C. Also, I think it would be ace if there is a female voice that announces if a "unit is ready" or "your base is under attack" ... something like that.

0_O .... Oh my...... another long post Cheesy

Think I'll shut up for now.

Bye everyone

Love is Grand , Divorce ..... a hundred Grand

January 19, 2008, 02:08:56 am

#4

Elvenfyre

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

OK I'll work on a story and plot out a beginner campaign for learning.

Now I am a little confused after going through your information.

Herzog Zwei as you know is a very different game from Command and Conquer, in the fact that you don't really build anything except units themselves.

You've got buildings, and a tech tree which is making it difficult for me to imagine this setting in a Herzog Zwei engine.

I think confusing the two ideas could lead to disaster as one doesn't compliment the other as far as game rhythm is concerned. In the herzog engine your ship and your enemies ship, your units and your enemy units are definitely enough of a focus to keep you occupied and provides the unique flavour of only being able to "be" in one place at a time.
I'd much rather focus on one idea or the other, and although full RTS systems are awesome, the Herzog Zwei idea does sound pretty cool(and reduces workload with less building code).
We could still cover a pretty good scope of units and include mithril as you say.
Further improvements on a basic system could allow units to gain experience and level up allowing them to be recalled with a higher level in harder battles.

So let me know, but I'll try to come up with a premise over the next few days, I'll need to bone up on my shining force god knowledge re their motivations and such, but it'll happen.

~Elvenfyre

January 21, 2008, 12:02:21 pm

#5

Peter van Dalen

Shining Something

Posts: 142

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

Thanks for correcting me, Cheesy

It's true that there are only units in Herzog Zwei.
I said C&C, but what I meant was Warhammer 40K Dawn Of War.
(I've played so many RTS's , it's difficult to tell them apart)

In DoW you capture strategic points.
1) All strategic points generate resources.
2) You build Generators with these resources.
3) The Generators produce energy.

The stronghold produces workers with which you build the rest of the buildings.
All buildings have (some sort of) upgrades.

Sooo,.....

Looking back , if we decide to keep all the different buildings, it is starting to look like the Settlers. Argh... Settlers is mostly about economy. ... Not want .... Cheesy

Eerrrmmm... ok... to stay true to most of the mechanics of Herzog Zwei,
I say we drop all buildings, except the main base (the Castle) and the satellite base (the Keep).

We could still include the Mitril-upgrade

.
The mine should always be positioned near one of the Keeps.
If the Keep is yours, you automatically receive the armor-upgrade,
From that moment on, every unit you build has the armor-upgrade.
And if you lose the Keep, you lose the upgrade. Simple Cheesy

(Units that already have the upgrade, will not be affected)

The following is sooo Herzog Zwei:

1) All other units will emerge from the Castle.
2) You can only build one unit at a time.
3) Every order costs money.

1) and 2) are definately in.

About 3) : We could do one of two things.

One: do exactly as in Herzog Zwei. So... when you right-click on a unit:

a) This brings up a small window,
b) This window contains info about the current unit,
c) It also has info about its current order,
d) Show the rest of the orders & the cost of each order
e) Click on the appropriate order
f) Click on OK to buy that order
g) Cost of the order is deducted from your credit-total
h) Window closes

Two:

Use Rectangle Unit-Selection and still use the "buy order" procedure.
This means you would be charged for every unit that is currently selected.

The formula could be (NUMBER_OF_UNITS * ORDER_COST = COST_TOTAL )
That could mean that, if you have a large force selected and you give it a new order,
you may end up with no money left to buy another unit (for a short period of time).
But that is up to the player of course. Cheesy

Elvenfyre......., you decide

(I'm voting 1) btw)

-#-

Quote

Further improvements on a basic system could allow units to gain experience and level up allowing them to be recalled with a higher level in harder battles

We could add a level-cap to prevent player-character becoming too strong ?

-#-

Receiving credits: (as in HZ)

Code:

			o---------------o-----------------o
                        | No. of Bases  |   G per second  |
                        o---------------o-----------------o
                        | None          |       40        |
                        | One           |       80        |
                        | Two           |      120        |
                        | Three         |      160        |
                        | Four          |      200        |
                        | Five          |      240        |
                        | Six           |      280        |
                        | Seven         |      320        |
                        | Eight         |      360        |
                        | Nine          |      400        |
                        o---------------o-----------------o

None bases means that you have only your main base left (gives 40 G)

-#-

Capture base with 4 infantry.
If base is captured by RED, then BLUE must capture it with 4 infantry.
So, if base is owned by RED, and BLUE has 3 infantry in that base, it's still RED (so there.. Wink

)

-#-

Idea:
Change the iconography of Herzog Zwei to that of Shining Force (animated ?)

-#-

Idea:
Introduce Fog of War in CoGI ? HZ didn't have Fog of War (IIRC).
I'm working on a simple system of using VertexAlpha with transparency. (it's last on my TO-DO list)
If it doesn't work we could always chuck it out the window, yes ?

-#-

Idea:
Introduce permanent radar ?
Radar in HZ was only accessible through the buy screen.

-#-

I've been working on a number buildings the whole weekend (Both Dark Resurrection AND CoGI , and this is what I've come up with.

THE CASTLE:

On the flagpole you see two small cubes. These are refencepoints for the flags I'm putting in. The flags will move with the wind. This should be a nice effect.

I'm using sprites as decals for the windows. These will applies from within the program.

THE KEEP:

For neutral Keeps there are no flags.
The flag (with your colors) for will go up, the moment you capture the base.
The same applies for the enemy.

The flag is a separate model , so that's why you cannot see it in these pictures.

So far, so good

Cheers Cheesy

Love is Grand , Divorce ..... a hundred Grand

January 21, 2008, 06:54:59 pm

#6

Elvenfyre

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

Wicked, I can work with this much easier now.

I vote 1 on unit costs.

The permanent radar is also a good idea, although should the radar be different from the minimap. IE: have a minimap which shows the ownership of all keeps on the map and the location of you and the enemy god(with the possibility of hiding the enemy gods location in a more difficult mode). Then also have a radar which is more of a close range radar for knowing when you are really close to enemy and friendly units.

Thinking again about the unit upgrades, right now it actually feels like a waste of time due to the high turnover of units. However I'm sure we could always come up with work arounds for this, and introduce reviving, level caps etc as you say. But that would really be an expansion on the main engine and could be left until a beta version has been released.

I'll get right onto some story development now, unfortunately I have to work 12 hours a day this week, but I should still get a little bit done each day.

~Elvenfyre

January 22, 2008, 02:17:30 pm

#7

Peter van Dalen

Shining Something

Posts: 142

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

Awesome.... Just take your time. I'm not going anywhere.
In the meantime: have a look at my new screenies.

I was just curious how many polygons it takes to render a number of Keeps.
Total polys rendered: see top left of screenie.

Keep 'em Close (geddit ? Wink

)

Love is Grand , Divorce ..... a hundred Grand

January 24, 2008, 11:19:05 am

#8

Elvenfyre

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

I've had some good ideas, just no time to put fingers on the keyboard. Good news on the other front we were talking about. Will get back this time next week if not earlier.

~Elvenfyre

January 24, 2008, 02:53:17 pm

#9

Peter van Dalen

Shining Something

Posts: 142

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

Outstanding Cheesy

.

I've already "pseudo-coded" a number of orders

Attack Main Base (ordercost: 3500 G )
Secure Base (ordercost: 1500 G )
Enter Base (ordercost: 1800 G )
Attack On Sight (ordercost: 1000 G )
Patrol (ordercost: 500 G )

To do:

Stationary (ordercost: 100 )
Supply (ordercost: 580 )
(unless we decide on mechanized units, we could ignore this entry (?!)

Also, it's time to give my physics-wrapper a run for it's money.
I've started working on geometry that's suitable with JV-ODE (The Blitz version of the Open Dynamics Engine)

(visit www.ode.org for more information about ODE)

On the Dark Resurrection-front: More AI in pseudo-code, this is going great as well .
(more news as it happens)

Elvenfyre, thank you for your efforts so far.

Love is Grand , Divorce ..... a hundred Grand

January 27, 2008, 12:33:00 pm

#10

Elvenfyre

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

OK so I firstly thought about game dynamics in relation to the theme.

As you know we have 8 units in Herzog Zwei and the "god" unit.

If we assume for now that the god unit flies around as a supreme being or can take shape in the "real world" on land, we have the transform function of the original plane-robot unit of herzog zwei.

It also makes sense that in its normal form the god can be hurt by normal weapons, however in its god form it should only be able to be hurt by magic.

It all seems to fit into place really, apart from the whole "smiting" thing(although this could be an interesting addition to the game dynamic). We just make the premise that the god can pick up units to move them at the faster speed, saving the provisions of that unit. In this way provisions relates to fuel, and that just leaves us with the problem of ammunition.

Sure, arrows run out, and swords take a bit of wear and tear, and we could say magic takes a bit of effort or that the magical weapons used burn out. So here we have our .. ammunition which could be extended if you have mithril weapons.
Therefore as a unit fights its weapon is slowly damaged until it is unuseable, and then that unit is defenseless until it gets close to a base(and its weapon regenerates) or a healer comes to help them.

Healer, archer, swordsman, wizard? Yeah! cool, time to explain the other 7 units.

Relative units from herzog zwei, by weak or strong i mean defense.
Boat: Merman (throws tridents to give range)
Motorbike: Thief (fast, weak, melee)
Nuke: Wizard (weak, can hit gods in flying form because they use magic!)
Tank: Knight (Strong, melee only)
Armoured Car: Archer (Weak, ranged)
Infantry Soldier: Soldier (weak, melee only)
Support Vehicle: Healer (no weapon, just heals/ gives provisions / weapons)
Cannon: Tower (is the equivalent of an unmovable wizard + archer combo with heaps of armour)

some equivalent system can be made with monsters for the evil god.

I'm not sure what timezone you'd like this whole thing set out in, but I've used Volcanon and Zeon here for kicks. I would suggest the possibility of Lucifer, Darksol and Zeon being gradually more and more difficult enemies(being of rank 3,2 and 1 devils) but for now let's stick with one opponent.

This can be fleshed out with some real plot if the idea sparks interest.
So this is in a time before Zeon was locked away, before he fought with his comrades the other devils, when Volcanon wasn't yet very good at staying out of the lives of men. There were several seperate lands on which different kingdoms ruled.
After _some event_ the god volcanon and the devil zeon realised that these men and the way they lived their lives could give them more power. fairly simply, by placing enough good or evil agents in any one town, word would spread and eventually it would follow the light or dark. when following the light or dark, the god or the devil would have more forces in that land, enabling it to fight the other god much more readily.
Now the race is on, each of _x_ lands is to be fought over by the god volcanon and the devil zeon.

This enables us to make _some event_ an opening sequence, and can allow some mightier than thou or plot development banter between the god and devil before/after each level if desired.

You could always allow the person to play as Zeon to give them a different storyline and different looking units to control.
Lastly, the option of having multiple devils could allow for an all against all scenario, 1 v 3 scenario etc to occur. (the devils dont really like working together, as you can see in the premise to sf2).

Happy to re-do this if it's not to your liking at all or you had other ideas, this is literally the first thing that came to mind.

~Elvenfyre

January 27, 2008, 12:39:23 pm

#11

Elvenfyre

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

[double post!!]

Love the screenies there, they look good.

I forgot to mention this: in the original herzog engine, only infantry(i think?) can take over bases. Anyway, I was kind of thinking here that anyone can take them over, but that it would be a waste of money considering soldiers being by far the cheapest.
We could always make some flimsy reason up inside the unit description, but yeah.

And on that note, if we want 4 units to take over a keep we will need some sort of visual aid to show us which of the spots are taken and by which player. 4 flags, the colour of which showing the state of that spot perhaps?

~Elvenfyre

January 28, 2008, 12:16:18 pm

#12

Peter van Dalen

Shining Something

Posts: 142

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

Awesome

Quote

If we assume for now that the god unit flies around as a supreme being or can take shape in the "real world" on land, we have the transform function of the original plane-robot unit of herzog zwei.

I had that problem too, so that's solved then.

-#-

In the case of God-Unit Zeon: If we use only the Head of Zeon, then he would only be
able to "float", but if we decide to incorporate it's body too, then he could float as a head and walk, using it's body.

In the case of God-Unit Volcanon: I could make the model so that he flies, flapping his wings, and when he lands he just walks , like a normal bird does.

-#-

I say , we keep the God-Units. The concept sounds great.
(I was thinking about using Volcanon and Zeon too. Happy that we're thinking along the same lines.

)

Quote

Boat: Merman (throws tridents to give range)
Motorbike: Thief (fast, weak, melee)
Nuke: Wizard (weak, can hit gods in flying form because they use magic!)
Tank: Knight (Strong, melee only)
Armoured Car: Archer (Weak, ranged)
Infantry Soldier: Soldier (weak, melee only)
Support Vehicle: Healer (no weapon, just heals/ gives provisions / weapons)
Cannon: Tower (is the equivalent of an unmovable wizard + archer combo with heaps of armour)

Your suggestions for the units are very good. I say we keep 'em!
I have an idea on how the Cannon\Tower unit should look. I'll make a model of this one.

The idea of having 4 units occupying the Keep , has my vote. (Yes, it was only the INFANTRY who could this)

We could use torches with a Red or Blue aura to represent which side has taken control over the Keep, or indeed .....4 flags.

To use totally different units for EVIL sounds very good to me. We could have a KAISER CRAB instead of a TANK, and a LASER EYE instead of a CANNON ?

The story sounds great. Please continue.. it reads very well to this point.

The use of a HEALER/SUPPLY TRUCK is a great solution. I could program it in such way, that, in case it gets attacked by the enemy, it would run to the nearest friendly unit.
So the enemy chases its target, and ends up being a target itself.

Oh.. wait .. I remembered that there was a limit of 50 units per side. Perhaps we could use that too ?

Everything is going well, from the looks of it...GREAT Grin

Love is Grand , Divorce ..... a hundred Grand

January 31, 2008, 11:48:56 am

#13

Peter van Dalen

Shining Something

Posts: 142

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

More stuff complete:

I've secured the bitmaps of the original unitorders.
We'll use these as placeholders, just to get the ordering-system up and running.

-#-

Finally completed the Spell-Tower model, it looks like a rook with a roof. Cheesy

Also complete:

- code for 3D-Lightning ,to go with the spell-tower.

- code for shooting arrows with an arc , also for the spell-tower.

- code for updating the bases: it checks how many bases each team has, and calculates money-distribution accordingly

- function for all units:
step 1 - distance-check to all bases from current position of unit
step 2 - sort distances from nearest to furthest
step 3 - pick first base from the top that is not the same color of the current unit. It returns the Base-Number

This function can be used for the orders:
- ENTER BASE
- SECURE BASE

(Thought for extra code for step 3 - in the event that all bases are friendly:
The order of ENTER BASE (infantry) or SECURE BASE (all other units) is changed to MAIN BASE ATTACK )

-#-

I've made a small test with 2x50 units (50 units for each side) moving about.
It's very unlikely that there are 100 units onscreen at one time, but this is a worst case scenario.
Anyway, it's running at 60 frames+ per second. So that's nice then Cheesy

-#-

Observation: infantry-units that occupy bases are NOT counted towards the total number of 50 units.
Imagine this, 9 bases with 4 units each ( 9 x 4 = 36 units )
This means you could only field 14 more units (50 - 36 = 14 )

That's all for the moment ,
Stay tuned Cheesy

Love is Grand , Divorce ..... a hundred Grand

February 04, 2008, 05:21:48 am

#14

Elvenfyre

Administrator Shining Spammer

Posts: 1,129

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

Ok so I've done some research on this and it seems to be ok - if anyone knows of other knowledge that conflicts with this feel free to educate me.

This is fairly weak for ongoing game development, so I envisage this as more of an idle start sequence like in shining force 1, with a real storyline that goes into Volcanon gaining an attachment with the people and forming his plan for the future. I guess it depends how much blabber we really want going on, or if we decide to keep it more arcade style with implied meaning.

=======
In the beginning in all dimensions life was merely a toy, instruments of amusement for gods and devils. One god, Volcanon saw the possibilities of mortal life and created in one dimension a world with such a magical field that gods and demons had much less power there. Given the unlimited number of dimensions, the world was safe unless other supreme beings stumbled over it, and mortal life grew, vegetable, animal, good and bad of its own kind.
After watching the world for a while, Volcanon was distracted to other matters and a long time passed and the god forgot about the world - when he finally remembered to look back, he found the peoples there struggling with right and wrong. They no longer knew what was pure and right, what was ugly and evil. He determined to go there himself and although with limited god-like abilities, would set the peoples on the right path again.
If he could encompass the entire world in good, he could use the will of all that belief together to create a barrier against ugliness and evil that would help stop the world becoming confused and evilly chaotic once more.
A greater devil, Zeon who hated all Volcanon stood for, was watching him as he travelled to the safe dimension and followed carefully. He very quickly realised the value of this place and all of the souls on it, the possibilities the creation could be twisted into. All he would need is to destroy all forms of good on the world and he would have a place to create unimaginable horrors. However on attempting to use devil powers he too found himself limited by the magical field of the earth. He would have to resort to simpler, more time-consuming methods.
Both Volcanon and Zeon found races of people which were to their liking, and set out to use them on the majorly populated areas, to change the peoples hearts and minds by controlling their centres - the keeps and castles.
======

This gives us an easy first round(tutorial possibilities) where you merely learn the units and nearly take over the map before the opponent turns up late(or perhaps always being there but being exceptionally slow, and with fog of war not "appearing" until late in the level), giving you an easy first victory.

I'm working on the whole "it gets harder" situation now to help that make sense(although it never really does in shining force or in herzog zwei).

One note on the order costs: in herzog zwei the "takeover base" option for soldiers was more expensive than the "go to next unoccupied base" - and achieved the same goal, so we need to get around this glitch by ensuring a slightly cheaper fee for the simpler order.

~Elvenfyre

February 05, 2008, 07:13:46 am

#15

Elvenfyre

Administrator Shining Spammer

Posts: 1,129

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Re: What if Shining Force was an RTS ?

Damn, while I was looking through shining force information I never bothered to check my memory on Herzog Zwei. It seems there's an important aspect, the fact the main base is the major victory condition, giving some kind of "power" aspect to the main base in the game. I'll have to incorporate a kind of well of power or, meeting of energy arcs or something at these key points. Shrines are pretty obvious, but they don't really make sense with the rest of the game dynamic.. back with more soon hopefully.

~Elvenfyre

The Shining Source