Ye Olde Blah

This should really go in the GWB, but nobody'll see it there, so here it comes. Besides, it's about games in general. Anyway, here we go.

The Daily Mail (tabloid trash paper here) today carried the headline "DEATH BY PLAYSTATION". The story boils down to this - a boy played lots of Manhunt on the PS2, then went out and killed someone from his school. The tabloids are already pointing the finger at Rockstar, take two and anyone else involved in the game's production or release. Indeed, the family of the murdered boy are even considering launching a corporate manslaughter case, which would be quite catastrophic.

I'm sure we've all played violent videogames at one point, and has any one of us committed a serious violent felony in the real world?

By the way, did I mention that the murderer was a drugtaker who hung out with a bad crowd and seemed "to be heading for a life of crime" (as the Daily Mail put it)? No? Well, it's all the game's fault, obviously.

I didnt know the lad was a drugtaker, which probably backs my opinion up even more. You cant blame computer games, its like safeguarding human stupidity, If I watch the programme 24, I'm not going to develop or purchase a weapon of mass destruction and hide it in an American city just cause I saw it on TV. The game was also an 18 certificate rating, so really they should be questioning and convicting the parents[/b] of manslaughter on why their 16 year old ( guessing he was still at home, where his parents legaly hold responsibility on his actions ) was playing it, when 16 is clearly a lower value than 18.

Dixons have taken the game off its shelf. Personaly I think that was pretty stupid, as far as I know they are the only lot to do it so far, and so beats the point of taking it off the shelf other than "We dont want a bloody court case on our hands". It makes them look quite stupid. Well to me it does anyway.

This is the first step, People are going to start shitting themselfs over violent games now. These people are also pretty stupid. This is not the last of this, expect someone stupidly trying to ban violent video games in the UK.

On a side-note, I'm actually considering to merge the GWB with the General Blah, since it's rather quiet these days anyway.

Any objections to that? :P

Dev - go for it, although if we have another wave of Xvars and potato123s we'll need somewhere else to shove them :P

Ace - all good points. As always with these situations, it's a case of everyone shifting the blame, and the parents of the murdered boy seem to be blaming the developers, and just about everyone else. Here's my two cents, anyway;

Unless I'm mistaken, the game carried a BBFC 18 certificate, which means it's illegal to sell the game to a minor, not for a minor to buy it. Following this logic, they should be the ones who are being railed-against, not specifically the developers.

However, even though he was underage it's not as though he was 12 or 13 - we're talking about a 17-year old, almost an adult in our society, and someone who should clearly understand the difference between reality and fantasy, and right and wrong. If he doesn't know the difference, whose fault is that? You can't blame the games industry for failing to educate one child about morality, nor can you point the finger at any other outside force. The responsibility of teaching a child what is right and what is wrong lies almost completely with the parents or guardians. I'm sure the press won't take this up, though.

As for the retailers, I think the Dixons group has withdrawn the game from all of their stores, but GAME (I think) has only taken it off the shelves in their Leicester store. It's more about avoiding the interests of the press than anything else.

I could go on for ever, but I'd rather let the Daily Mail do it for me.



HE WALKED BEHIND SOMEONE?! WOW! HE MUST HAVE LEARNT THAT FROM A GAME!

This argument has been going on since the days of Mortal Kombat and Night Trap in the old 16-bit days, when as we know graphics were much less realistic than they are now. But until a game comes packaged with a real-life weapon and step-by-step instructions (including, presumably, "sneak up from behind"), they're just the perfect alibi for murderers who wish to absolve themselves of responsibility.

[/rant - haven't posted a rant in a long time :P]

By the way, has anyone heard what the family of Warren LeBlanc (the killer) has to say? So far it's all been Stefan's parents in the media.

Edit - I almost forgot to post this inspirational thread from the official Daily Mail messageboards. Enjoy!  (http://chat.dailymail.co.uk/dailymail/threadnonInd.jsp?forum=105&thread=9649451&message=10520947)

I don't think they're mandatory age limits... they're giving an advice age, nothing more and nothing less.

I blame the parents anyway, for not teaching the kid proper morales and values. Like Newts said, we've all played violent games before and none of us turned into murderers so I cannot believe the game is the guilty factor.

Game's in my download queue as we speak BTW, I want to see what all the fuss is about.



Edit: That link is no longer working... perhaps the webmasters there removed it?

On a side note, the game Manhunt has been illegal in New Zealand since half december 2003:

http://www.censorship.govt.nz/news15.html

What utter rubbish!
I devoted any entire save on morrowind to killing every NPC in the game!
Have I slain the entire United States yet?

Here, although it is an "advice" age, one cannot purchase it if lower than the age. Laws have gotten tighter over the years.

4 years ago I could walk into the gameshop, and buy an 18 like any other game.
2 years ago they would ask if I'm 18, ( which I would say yes in a deep voice lol ) and they would let me buy it.
Now, they ask if your 18, and ask for proof that your 18, which odviously I didnt have, being 16.

Ehhh it''s kinda hard to get i Colt these days.. though i am tempted once in a while

It isn't the games that make the people do the crime (if that was shave so many ideots acting around hunting things that you would see from gaems like Final Fantasy and what not) Its just a scapegoat for these ideot people to tkae the blame off their kid and put it on the company that published the game, however, while the game Manhunt is full of gore and what not, there is still nothing in it that says "Hey kid, go grab that gun and kill someone" the game itself teaches nothing really, sure... you might pick up on how to be stealthy or whatever. But the point is it don't make you do it, to use something Larry the cableguy said (Seems stupid but it applys well here) if they blame the game for that I can Blame my pencile for any mispelt words...

The case was quietly dropped when became clear that the owner of the game was the 14-year-old murdered guy, NOT the 17-year-old murderer.

Click here (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/04/manhunt_murder_claim/) for source.

quite simply the parents bought him the game, and when the kid got killed, thought it would make some easy money at the expense of the developer.
People are bastards like that, trying to profit from the death of their son.

It is fascinating that the family who always complained about the game were the parents of the murdered boy, and I am yet to hear anything from Leblanc's family. As Tommy rightly says though, the story has disappeared from most places, although here it turned out that Manhunt has sold out in numerous shops, which just proves that the games retailers who didn't stop stocking it are the smarter ones :P

Does anyone care if the game is violent or not as long as you play it?O_o

In Germany we have a binding limit for games, vids and DVDs. It's a law but in fact it's as binding as the laws dealing with alcohol (not everybody controls your pass so you might get stuff anyway).

I think that's OK because it prevents kids from getting to hard stuff while allowing grown ups to buy the uncut stuff. Till now those thing were actually banned from public (like you could not buy any FPS or Mortal Kombat game in a German game store).
If games get too cruel they still get banned but since Doom3 passed that limit I think that that can't be a major problem.

I think its stupid to try to maintain the innocence of children..you mid as well open them up to reality while you can still control their environment.
People can die in the most horrific ways..for some in the world its a fact of life (readin' the recent BBC stories). I often wonder what they'd do with the information, the idea that the world is not fun nor is it easy. That things arent always solved at the end of the episode, and that when you loose an arm you cant put it back.

Anyways..ontopic:

Ive always felt that these murders are the result of stupid parents that dont know what the hell their child is doing. If anyone would take a game's interpretation of action and turn it into a reality already requires some medical help.
I feel sorry for the family's loss, but many have tried to fight the video game industry and ive yet to hear a win/settlement. Money wont help replace a loss like that..you mid as well become activists for parents to talk to their kids and get an idea of what exactly is going on in their life.

hear hear.
A lawsuit is no substitute for good parenting!

Well you don't need to bath kids in blood IMHO.
I don't miss a game like Rise of the triad where you had to shoot unarmed people begging for their life....
I think it's a parents duty to control the violence a kid should consume. Sadly in todays world many parents lack this responsibility so state has to jump in the break.

I confess I'm playing Mario Kart every day...
Yet, I don't throw any turtle shells on cars taking over me when I drive....
Maybe I should, and sue Nintendo?

Ah that's an argument as sharp as the "Mr. Manson caused Littleton" argument. I strongly believe that a stable mind isn't influenced by violence of any kind.

Nevertheless I also believe that by living in a democratic state you agree into certain human rights which should never be broken, even not digital - at least if it is uncommented. I mean Nazi's, antisemites or even violence that violates as I mentioned before ain't anything that should be allowed to get any possibility to get public.

In Germany our Nazi try successful to gain members by spreading out their music and computergames in schools which is an absolute proof that the youth can be influenced by this stuff.

One might discuss ages and other details but the general restriction is OK IMHO - especially as it basically just enables parents to control what their youth can play/hear/see and hopefully they will act more responsible then....

I work with kids, and I see them copying things they've seen on TV and Video Games all the time. Most of it is pretty harmless, but there's a few times I get a little worried.

It's not really a case of if they're influenced, just how much. A stable mind and their surroundings all come into play just as much as what they see on the screen.

It is understandeble,But In some countryes they just don?t give a damn to hide he evil and real world of today from kids,what a pity.

if you hide things from kids, they won't be able to cope with it when reality slaps them in the face.
It's important that kids be exposed to things of this sort, but in a controlled environment where a trusted adult can explain things to them.
also, chaos is spelled with an "H"

Well it's not about hiding the world but about giving infos at a point the kid can cope with it. It's basically like taking a 6 year old to a gangbang. You simply don't do that as the kid could not deal with it.
Or with another example you would not discuss politcs with a 6 year old either. Not because it would hurt but because it just knows fuck all about it.

And your computer has a Shift key.

No they are influenced by the people

Whatever,I?m not english.

Neither are those two :P

I, however, am, and I will pick mercilessly at your spelling, punctuation and grammar whenever I see fit. Happy posting :P

I will wiggle my glutious to form blurry patterns that will both dazzle and boggle the mind!!

muhuhahaha!  :lol:

Video games can influence youth today. They play a game and think what happens in it is cool. Thats why certain games are rated MA. They're meant to be played by an older audience rather then some 10 year old that will be influenced by them. Hounestly i think that if you're over the age of 14 you should be able to play any video game you want and it won't make you go kill people.

If you play alot of pen pong will you start hitting penguins with pattles?

Were i?m Anyone can but a game like Doom 3 or resdent Evil... -_-

after playing Doom III i think i'd more want to assume the fetal position and cry..like a little sissy girlie man

rofl

Of course after playing it now i have no clean underwear :\

when doom II came out, there was this one door which emanated a heavy raspy breathing, and it scared me so bad I wouldn't go through it, and as a result didn't finish the game (i was, however, 7 at the time!)

Playings as god mode shold weak the creepy part of it...

well...some of us dont cheat :P

yeah cheating bastard....


Oh and with god mode on it still scares you shitless :P

it's not the idea of dying that scares me, it's the atmosphere.  Deep heavy breathing behind a door in a dark alleyway is scary any way you cut it!

the idea of choosing either the ability to defend yourself, or the ability to see around you..its just a hard choice!! hehe. just find some duct-tape man!!! slap that mag-light onto the shotgun or somethin'...

life would have so much more meaning  :lol:

isn't there a duct-tape mod for doom III?

The sad thing about Doom3 is once the scaring effect is gone the game gets boring - happend to me after two days - shouldn't have wasted my money......

Reminds me somehow of Unreal 2 - sure it looks good, sure it has nice levels but it lacks the "I need to continue playing no matter what it takes"  feeling

O hate cheats too...I?m dying to play resident evil zero.

Eh i suppose its different for everyone. Kinda like Halflife 2, i stopped waiting for it the second time it was delayed :P

speaking of delays... Duke Nukem Forever is using a new engine... So, I wonder how much more time that will add...

well anyhing they add to eternity won't make a difference