Ye Olde Blah

Is it just me, or is there a lack of reasons why many of the SF characters in 1 n 2 join the Shining Force?  Especially in SF1...Comon, you all know what I'mm talking about.  Now lets name some examples...

The first example that comes to mind is Kiwi.  He joins up with the Shining Force because...?  Cause you named him?  Cause hes shivering?  Cause he's a stupid turtle?  Who else joined the Shining Force (in games 1 or 2) basically because they had a portrait and happened to be standing in front of you?

Personally I found May in SHF2 to be a rather shocking example.

I'll never forget the phrase "mind if I join you?" :P

Well in fact the main reason is rather mathematical:

If and only if  the sum of charisma of all of your on force characters  + half of the sum of the charisma of the rest of your characters + your own charisma (as you count twice) - minus the charisma of the character to join multiplicated with the number of your characters > than the creativity of the designers THEN a character will join

Yes, there are some random reasons for joining or just random people join that you dont even know.  I have one that I always felt was pretty random.

In Creed's house/castle or whatever he lives in, you just randomly get people!  I can just imagine Creed in all his ugliness comes over to you "Here choose one of these people."  I mean, waht the hell where they doing just sitting in his abode for all eternity?  They just come out of nowhere, the four of them..ok enough of my ranting. I will save your eyballs from any more torture.

Penn, Pennko and Pendolf from SFIII all join to save their Penn species from the evil hands of the Bulzome Monks, who like to eat them :P

Not to sound mean, but did you just give the Pens a reason to join the SF?  I think the REASON makes all the randomness disappear...

Nope ... this reasons should just distract from the true randomness - ya know the best way of hiding sth is to show sth else.....

Also, (even though he SORTA has a reason) Jaha, yea he is their friend, but there is no particular reason for him joining the force.  That may not be random, but something about him that IS random...

Do you guys notice when he comes to the three, that he comes from OUT of the map.  You cant even access that part of the map, and he spawns from it!?!?

This is outrageous!!!!!!

It wasn't me that gave the Penns that reason, it's what they say in the game. I could never think of something so twisted.

It shouldn't be that baffling though, because most of the people who join you are fighters or warriors of some description, so they join you because they want to fight, essentially. Who can be bothered thinking of some twenty-odd reasons for someone to say "let me fight"? I can't even think of one.

Well they should have tried a little harder.  People don't just put their lives on the line at random so that they can fight with a group of people they don't know.

Musashi from SHF1.  I believe he was the randomest person to join the Force in that game, and trust me, there were a lot of random people in that one.

Ben...I rarely see random things being covered over by other things, though it does happen.  If you can come up with a detailed explanation for the random thing you have just performed/said, and do this at the right time, you can successfully cloak the randomness, and only recieve some suspicious looks from those around you.

On the other hand, if you decide an explanation is too much work, you can resort to doing something incredibly random in order to outrandomize the last random thing you did or said.  Though this may cause you to become socially neglected by the people who saw or heard your randomness.

Random, random, random.  Randomness has got to be the best element of humor in the world.  Every show that is meant to be funny, has its best moments when it has done somehting random.  I am also a very random individual as is Noma here...for example, he yells at my garden decorations and throws them across the front lawn...and then me and my other friend throw the daily paper at him.  So you can see that randomness is an essential part of our lives, and probably yours.

Thank you,
RJ


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL RANDOM RANDOM RANDOM !!!! :P

Yes, randomness can be a real hoot.  Another example being the fact that I knock the books out of RJ's hand when he is talking to me.  Another perfect example would be when I smack/punch him in the face when he isn't paying attension.  I also believe that I have randomly cursed at his dogs just to see their reactions.

Randomness is the best.

Agh, the memories of having to pick up my books...also another random thing taht you do is get pissed off if we (my ohter friend Mike) say your name, and if we dont say anything after it...you get mad for some reason...so...

MIIIIIIIKE OLAAAAAWSKI!

Typing my name doesnt anger me.  Saying it loudly, then running away without saying sumthing afterwards pisses me off.

Hey there, (scratches back of head with the ^^ eyes with a giant sweat bead on the side of his head and the  :D smile) looks like I forgot to mention that we do that too.  :P

You ruining my topic, now shove off.  Back to the randomness of the SF characters.

Wow, you two are real crazy mothers. Woah there, calm down! Your sheer wackiness is in serious danger of making my sides split. I mean, throwing a newspaper at someone is comedy now? I wonder how long you'd last playing "Paperboy" before your ribs imploded :P

Probably not a coincidence that I have Paperboy...heh

Ok, here's a crazy thought.  The ENTIRE shining force is random.  think about it, three kids in school..(the 4th at home =\) and all of a sudden they form the Shining Force...i don't know, you may have a different opinion, but taht is how i see the game.  :P

I think I'm more scared at the fact that they all take weapons to school.

Why? Ain't that different these days ;-)

Yes, except these days we have the wonders of guns and high explosives!

Maybe its because Sir Astral had a history of sexual melastation, and looking at kiddy porn...You know how he likes them centaurs  :wink:

And another thing, they never actually formed the shining force.  I can't recall any moment throughout the game when somone called them the Shining Force, apart from the "{Blank} the {Blank} has joined the Force" parts throughout the game.  I think they just so happened to form a thirty member band of powerful, weapon wielding misfits who had to reseal Zeon because Volcanon had to be such a bitch about helping them.

Finally, yes, I think NJ is the most random state in the US.  Other than the fact that every ball we (and by we, I mean I) throw is magnetically pulled toward the same, alarm armed (if that is how it should be phrased) car on the block, we also can't seem to go anywhere without seeing something funny.  I mean, some people around here are just so utterly hideous, you have to point, laugh, and even insult them just because they are so DAMN ugly.  Now I'm not trying to put down ugly ppl, but if your ugly, don't swear that your not.  Other random things around here include dogs that bark at you, and then when your too far away, seem to appear in the yard closest to you on the street and continue barking.  People that wait until its a green light to cross the street, so they can walk incredably slow in front of a car to look cool, and even some ppl who think Carrot Top is funny.  Now thats just wrong, isn't it?  That is why NJ is so damn random.  Don't you ever, EVER, come here.

Sorry for ranting, but there is still so much to tell about this country's randomness.  Maybe RJ can finish the rest...

Sorry, much too lazy, and I have a fan-fic to write!  Basically, ugly people and idiots.  Taht would sum it up in 2 short but powerful adjectives.

(smacks Satan) GRRRR...sorry, I hate Mondays...

BTW, the second part of my 2 adjectives includes you  :P

As quoted by Christopher Silva "You meany pants."

As quoted by Peter Griffin, "According to the 3rd paragraph, 4th sentence, 2nd word of the Geneva Convention....'the'".

Just so you know, "idiots" is a noun, not an adjective, and strictly-speaking "ugly people" is a compound noun, not really an adjective either. You can't really hate an adjective, seeing as they describe things - much better to hate the things themselves, like pedants or English students :P

put ugly alone, there is one adjective, and pretend idiot is an adjective  :D

Well, you can hate nouns, so I hate Satan.  "Score one fer..." me!  :P

Yes, I hate many nouns, a few adjectives, like 'slightly', I'm cool with the adverbs..prepositions can burn in hell, even though I just used one right there.  Umm...yea.

Gong - You talk to him while hes cutting wood...

The Dwarf in the bar (forgot name) - You talk to him while hes drinking beer.... he desides hes had enough and you look good enough to follow...

Lyle - He just... shows up...

Lowie - He don't want to be left behind (Its almost as good as randomness)

All from SF1... I havn't really played any of the others... at least... not fully thru....

*Gets blown away by nostalgia trip*

I don't really agree with the theme of the topic here at all.

There are reasons for each person joining.

Taking into account the world the characters live in, nearly every single person has a very good reason to join the force.  Put yourself in their shoes.  

One very un-random person (Gort, the old guy in the bar) who you think is random.. it is NOT random, when you retire, to find out that life is really pretty boring compared to your life at work (killing people, in his case) - and then some new captain comes from the king looking for recruits for a mission to the neighbouring city - gort jumps at the chance.

That's pretty much the thing.. I mean look around the villages and towns - there are farmers and housewives, fishermen, old men, traders, soldiers - and of course there is some times the odd person who can swing a sword and wants some adventure - AND then along comes this cool group of adventurers who seem to be able to handle themselves pretty well (and often the character has been in a place the force has battled BEFORE the join) and they agree with the cause of finding the source of all these monsters who have been laying waste to their world.

As I said, put yourself in their shoes.  May.. now may.. she has been trained by dad to kill monsters, and her dad gets killed by monsters.  I mean why wouldn't she want to join a group which is very probably going to run into monsters?  

I first played SF1 when I was about 10 years old, and at that point it all just made sense - in these respects.  

I don't know whether everyone elses sense of narrative purpose is off, or what.  
Maybe by way of a childs imagination I made a reason up myself in my own head for people to join.  
It still does make sense to me now though.

So yeah.  People join cos
A) life is boring and they wanna kill monsters,
B) they wanna defend their homeland,
C) their master/tutors tell them it is for the greater good,
D) something bad has happened to them,
E) abstract reason outlined in plot.

One abstract is Kiwi, who you save from a self-destructing city(and you treat nicely).
I'd say that gives him a reason to go/stay with you, he owes you his life.

[shrugs]
These are obvious in most cases because of the way the characters speak, the manner in which they appear, and what they say in headquaters.

Oh yeah, and the group _is_ called the shining force from time to time.

First example is the very arthur looking sprite in the castle before you leave for your first battle.  He is frustrated and says something like "I should have been the one to lead the shining force!"

There are other times too.

Well you have to remember the plot of this story is very shaky in some respects too.  Maybe some of the characters have reasons, I admit, but after you get them they dont have any influence anymore, and thusly they just seem to be a giant group of people with no personalities and no real reason for being there.

Because characters don't say anything much after they join, and the main character doesnt really react to anything to begin with, the characters that join just seem flat.  They don't seem to have a meaning, and if they do, its in an underlying story that isn't mentioned in the game.

As for being called the Shining Force, I was talking about SHF2(they are called the Shining Force usually by enemies, but there are a few people who randomly blurt it out).  But since you bring up SHF1, you can easily see that the plot is flawed right from that knight you mentioned at the start.  No one dubbed them 'Shining Force', and who would make up rumors about them being called so before hand?

My narritivium figures that the only way this is possible is for the king to have dubbed the small secret force which is to slip out of the city, the shining force.
The other thing of course, it never shows you what YOU say to the person, you have to make that up in your own mind.  

You're right about the characters getting flatter once they join.
The focus is off them.  Generally their influence is gone once they join, because of what made them join and that you're leaving the area..  
To have a bunch of Peters following you around for a particular time could be frustrating hehe.  
At the end a few of them come back into their own a little - but you are right - it would be kinda cool to see xcharacter pop out and threaten an unhelpful king/mayor with a secret that they know about them, or Anri call in her mage buddies for a particular battle etc.

Thats the major flaw in most of the games.  The storyline is pretty simple, and the characters have no personality.  Even the main character doesn't say anything...but oh well.  That's what fanfiction/fangames are for.  My fic has been going for more than a year and its getting slightly harder since I have to try my best to give each of the 15+ characters in the story so far a personality.

But back on topic.  It would have been one of the games highlights to have all the characters say more than just two lines in the entire game.  Multiple lines by differant characters from time to time would at least let you know how every character acts, and it would make the story more enjoyable.  Given RotDD tried to give all the characters backgrounds and personalities, I still don't think they did well enough since they messed up most of the games other great features.

(http://img218.exs.cx/img218/492/bush9se.th.gif)

Max is hot?

Also, I like posting in really old threads. :D