Shrine - It has a lost feeling to it. I get the idea you are aiming for sorrow as a theme, or at least some longing quality. For the most part, its there, but that major chord near the beginning at about 5-8 seemed very out of place. Keep it minor, and roll with it, you had it working so well for you the rest of the piece.

Vegabond - Another piece with great potential. I would look into some small percussion that are as simple as some soft Djimbe behind it or a woodblock with some shakers or maracas. Something to keep the waltz-like feeling going since it could be hard to hear the downbeats of the tune that would normally bring someone into the feel.

Tanner's Theme - Get that solo audible better. Everything else fits so nicely I would smite you for not getting that hidden melody out in the open. ^^ Perhaps moving to a different instrument would be better. It sounds like the harmonia track but I cant really tell. Stick a solo line on solo horn, violin, english horn, flute, or trumpet (I recommend English Horn, French Horn, or Flute).

Another Tanner's Theme - I would take out the piano and put in the violas, cellos, and bass in that way it runs linear to the pizzicato strings you have in the beginning. Then keep that idea rolling and play around with it some more, maybe add a solo instrument to linger on top to better define your melody and the tune. ^^

Jumpy World - Better developmental styles and the theme properly presents itself. I guess, in my own opinion, I would really not make everything so short and staccato with a long lead on top. But that is just me. ^^

So you can compare I have prepared some samples of Basic Midi, Pro-Tools, and Gigastudio so you can hear for yourselves the differences.

Gigastudio 2 (using ON-BOARD sound fonts) [just to show you Gigastudio's lowest quality compared to Pro-tools Highest quality] -
The Bamboo Forest - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FT704ZO9
The Fool - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6MPAJYMO

Pro-Tools LE (Using available sound fonts)[the following works are from a game project still being made with a private studio]

Jacq's Theme - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DY89M28T
Dungeon 1 - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0IBNXLVT

This last link is a midi file made in Finale, again to give you an idea of the many different stages

Romanze for Two Hearts midi version 2 (String orchestra, piano, 2 voices [soprano and tenor]) - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZXGCX9UB

Ok, we all know that you cannot write music just by pulling it out of your ass and by some osmosis it becomes an midi file on your CPU and it mutates into an mp3. There is a lot more to it, but once you learn how it is done, invest some money, you can make music quickly and painlessly in a mater of days/weeks.

First off, you need a cpu rig that can handle the mp3 creation and midi alteration software (Gigastudio/Pro-Tools). This can be a little pricey due to the fact and on board sound card all the way to the Creative Sound Blaster Fatality Professional Series (a $150 card) is not enough to do the job.

The required audio card to run both of these programs nicely would be http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010LT.html since it is compatible to ASIO2 (format for Pro-Tools LE) and GSIF1 & 2 (Gigastudio 3-4 Format) with mic inputs for voice recording and live transcriptions. This card, along with a decent video card (I recommend at LEAST an Nvidia 8500 GTS or higher [I use an 8800 Ultra]) to render the sound board menus so they do not lag behind.

But that is just software, 2 gigs of ram and a dual core is enough for speed. You might want to consider 500GB to 1TB of HDD space.

Now, that is the bare minimum (plus some decent CPU speakers) to get started. But there are many other perks for spending some extra dough on some other hardware to make it happen. Things like a Midi Keyboard (299 and up) are great add-ons to help the music process since you can play the keyboard in Finale and notes will write themselves onto the program rather than having to do it note by note through a mouse w/cpu keyboard. Another MASSIVE perk is a midi Mixer. I use this one here with a matching bridge http://www.samash.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_DM3200%2032%20Channel%20Digital%20Mixer_-1_10052_10002_-49973631_cmCategorySA181196

The mixer is used during processes through Cakewalk Pro Audio (Midi editor) and then used through Pro-Tools/Gigastudio, but I will touch more onto software in a moment.

As far as hardware goes that is a great start if you get all the hardware. But keep in mind they get more expensive further down the line. Investing in Boom mikes, filters, and a large monitor help a great deal as well. But keep in mind that your creating audio and that the best tools are no better than the best imagination.

Software is always questionable and many people still do not know what software to get. It is not all that hard really. The software is very basic to attain (but very pricey) and you just have to get a system down. For music it is a few easy steps:

1.Notation Program
2.Midi Editorial Program
3.Midi Alteration Program

That is generally it. Sounds easy doesnt it, but not as much as it seems. The programs themselves are all very complicated and dense. They do not come with much instructions on how to use them, but can be bought 1200 pages long at your local bookstore for 100 bucks or more. But once you learn them you will cut your time in such great fragments it will take you almost no time to do steps 2 and 3.

Notation Programs vary from many different manufactures: Makemusic Finale, Sibelius, Voyetra Music Studio, Cakewalk Orchestra 2 to name a few. These programs are 200 dollars as high as 500. Now, the one I recommend the most is Finale 2008. This program has almost no limitations and has almost all the formations you could think of available, problem is, it is the hardest to learn and the most dense. Sibelius is a basic software for full orchestrations but is VERY restrictive on how you can make it. Though Sibelius 4 is very flashy and has MANY subsidiary softwares you can buy for it to help teach you how to compose music, it is still crap compared to Finale 2008. Voyetra and Cakewalk Orchestra are cheap and easy to use, I used Cakewalk Orchestra 2 when I was 8-12 years old, so it is very basic only cost about 100 dollars, Voyetra is just crap. But the sooner you start practicing with Finale 2008 the better you will get at it. You can also get a watered down version of Finale 2008 online, it is called Finale Notepad 2008, it is free and good for you to practice with. Get it, you can thank me later. ^^

Once you have created your work in the Notation software (it takes a level of musician ship to write music in score form), you can save your file as a midi through that same software. Once you have done that you are ready for step two.

Cakewalk Pro Audio is arguably the best software for Midi alteration. It is, hands down, easy to use and very effective. A watered down version is Cakewalk in Concert for those who want to learn. When saving the midi format through the Notation Software be sure you save each Staff to a track, you work alone being 17-25 tracks for orchestra onto one midi pallet. Doing this will open up in Cakewalk Pro Audio into several switches on a board for you to individually alter. Once you have your outputs to where you like it, save it again as a midi and we move on to stage 3.

This stage is the the second hardest, the first being the most time consuming. This stage is altering the midi file with newer and more beautiful sounding midi forms and overhauling the track quality. Midi, in its own nature, is around 20 voices maximum give or take. Through Pro-Tools/Gigastudio it can be as high as 277 or more. This makes things very attractive to sound quality and thus creates a more masterful work.

Now, there are three masterful softwares for this junction: Gigastudio, Pro-Tools, and Sonar 7

Cakewalk Sonar 7 is most likely the dark sheep. It does a mediocre job and a lot of sound fonts are not available for this software, however it is the most compliant to most system specs.

Pro-Tools is the most universally used software in the world for audio generation. It has some decent sounds but it still sounds computer generated, just nicer. (most of the basic stuff I post is in Pro-Tools since it is less time consuming. If I want to make a professional work I move to the next software).

The most dense and highest quality output is, hands down, Gigastudio. Gigastudio gives you the most options and control, including sectioning and revamp like you couldnt imagine. I can take a midi track of a string orchestra (only 5 staves) and make it sound as if a real orchestra was playing it. Taking one sting staff (lets say 1st violins) and making the string synth sound that is a single track and make it 20 single track violin tracks. Thus the imitation of a 1st violin sting section, each track having the full array of volume control. This software, as powerful and as amazing as it is, is obtusely difficult to use and requires a monster rig running XP and nothing else in the background. However, this is what is used in the film field as well as others (Final Fantasy 10 ran Gigastudio 1 or 2 I believe and FF 12 ran Gigastudio 3 with its standard midi selection). The other perk about Gigastudio is that you can purchase many different types of midi sound fonts for it such as The Los Angeles Philharmonic sound font, the Speyer Cathedral Organ font, and so on instead of using the on board sound font package. These fonts are mimics of those ensembles sounds and can make your audio production climax like never before, but they run anywhere form 70 to 200 dollars and the Gigastudio software itself is 600 - 800 dollars. So this can be a turn of for many people.

Anyway, that is a general idea of what is involved and how to go about making it. Hopefully it has helped a bit. There is much more that could be told about this actual process but I dont think it would be to wise to get too technical. ^^

But, besides that, I would be glad to be interviewed and be able to divulge more into the art of sound creation, how to compose, and audio engineering stuffs for everyone to use. ^^

Well hardware-wise, in its own respects, is not very demanding as one may think it to be. The more hardware you have though, the easier the creation process is. For the most part, it is all in the software. I mean, I guess I could post a little bit of how to put a music generation CPU together with a list of applicable software, including needed and recommended hardware in the Shining Aid.

For the most part though, NO, my workstation does not look anything like a 60's sci-fi apparatus. If anything, its just a few small things here and there. But go ahead and put a list together and I would be glad to answer your questions. ^^

As far as the ressurection spell goes it would be a heavy mp costing spell and could, if any, only rez a person once in the mid point of the game and MAYBE twice near the end. The rez spell, in its own, would only give a minute amount of hp to the revived ally (most likely only enough to live, but could be gibbed easily by a weak attack [ end game only about 10 hp]). I do concur with the MP cost for the stealing ability, though it would take a slot away from the NINM skill gauge, but I am thinking it a good idea to drop the Smoke magic.

As far as the software for music goes, I usually write it all in Finale 2008, my piano and chamber musics in Sibelius 4, and use Pro Tools LE AND Gigastudio 3 to remake the tracks using its high quality midi samplers (I specifically used the on board Pro Tools LE sampler to make the music your heard. For my higher quality musics I use the LA Philharmonic Sampler for Gigastudio 3). ^^ Keep in mind the music itself, in Finale 08', overnight could be handed to a live orchestra to play if I decided to use live music. ^^ This eliminates the obnoxious combining and cluster of notation on a standard midi track, only to have segregate it later for orchestral use.

Reviving a forum like that, I would be glad to help with audio questions, music, Sound FX, and Voice recording. ^^ I would also be glad to help any other projects with their music/sound issues. ^^ Have some small music you need orchestrated? I wouldnt mind helping out, or writing music itself, just let me know -- it is my day job anyway. ^^

Thank you Newts, I am glad you enjoyed it. More to come. ^^

I was considering that very much, but there were some things that made it a little off in my head.

- The Thief class would gain agility per level in the 2-4 range per level (in a sense).
- I was actually considering the power of the knife to be weak, but in return, ups the chances of a critical to around 30% or a little more.
- A debate that has been going is creating, for the first time, a steal skill. The thought of being able to steal an equipped weapon from an enemy instead of it only be dropped if it were unequipped. This theory, in it's own nature, create the loss of a turn for the Thief - Ninja Master class to sacrifice a turn in order to steal a rare weapon or ring that is equipped by an enemy that cannot be attained through basic defeat. The problem that came from this theory is would it be classified as magic with no MP value that takes the place of a magic slot or could it be a passive skill done through physical attack that only offers a percentage that the weapon will be taken. The thievery skill will really offer a much more in depth value to the Thief character in the early stages of the game, where disarming an enemy would turn the tide of battle, especially against bosses if we choose to allow it. Anyway, it is something we are diving more deeply into.

We are also plotting on creature classes (Like Domingo, Guntz, Zylo, Kiwi, etc) that we would like to implement in the game. One thing that was discussed was pulling away from the basic form. Creating creature classes with skills and magics that the other classes do not have access to was a big front of this discussion. An example was creating the Phoenix class that actually has a raise spell that could, during combat, bring a character back from the exhausted state. Anyway, please share any thoughts you might have on this idea and, perhaps, anything you would like to see implemented so my team and I can discuss it. ^^

Anything is better than megaupload. It is just the only thing I can usually think of at the time. ^^

- Sorry for not getting back sooner

Great point. I do think that SF2 had a great cast regardless of size. It was how they decided to use that size to perform in the story. They could have split up Bowie and Peter, in a sense, and let you use 2 sets of parties to go off on their own etc, then combine them into a massive group for the FINAL BATTLE!. This is something I am deeply considering in the SF game produced by our studio. So that way you can have the massive character count as seen in SF2, form 2 parties with characters who are deeply involved in the scenarios. Be able to mix and match your two teams at certain points of the game to change up your parties (though some story driven characters will not me switchable) and still have about 5 characters you can have as excess baggage to fill in the 2 to 3 spaces open in the full party count (so, 10 characters in excess to standard story driven parties at the absolute MOST, I like the idea of 5 to 7).

*Was not sure where to post this, so I did it here. ^^ (Please excuse typos IT IS LATE!!!!)

Well, my team so far has worked on a design for our game and the story is still being fleshed out. The music portion is getting there ahead of schedule (due to my sound engineering skills and my composition skills) we have already designed music suited for the game.

"Story basis" - We have worked on a story so far, but doing it in an unusual way. I am writing the story, music, and voice over/sounds. So far for the story I have been writing in it book form with a guideline of what happens in the story scenario wise and battle movement wise. In other words, the story piece for piece as far as the dramatics is going slow due to its detail, but the battle scenarios are moving briskly. ^^

Character creation is going smoothly to the make of character designs already being pumped out.
Zieg (Main C) - SDMN (Egress), SWMR (Sword Master [same as SDMN but can use stronger swords not available to SDMN]) (Egress), HERO (HERO can use enchanted Swords that are exclusive to the HERO/DCPN class) (Egress, Bolt 4), DCPN (Divine Champion [keep in mind, low mp count]) (Egress, Bolt 4, Heal 2, Aura 1)

Nike - MAGE (Fire, Ice, Muddle, Paralize), WIZD (Fire 4, Ice 4, Bolt 4, Desoul), BTMG (BattleMage) (Fire 3, Ice 3, Bolt 2 [offense/defense bonus]), SORC (Gladius [Earth], Illagross (Dark [can cause poison], Ravala [Wind], Starlet [Holy])

Aurianna PRST (Heal, Detox, Blast), VICR (Heal, Detox, Blast, Aura), WPST (War Priest) (Heal 4, Blast 4, Aura 4, Boost 2 [offense/defense bonus]), MMNK (Heal, Detox, Blast, Aura)

Made some alterations to the THIEF class - Thief is the basic as scene in SF2. They have weak attacks using daggers but have high speed and good movement. Shadow Dancer is similar but it build up differently. Shadow Dancer gains a boost in offense more over defense. The Thief is already considered a "squishy" character. But the Shadow Dancer is a "Squishy" with more BITE with its stat boost focusing more on improving speed and attack. Ninja changes to sword and their focus is still on offense, but defense tries to catch up. Speed Improves as well, but at a normal rate. Ninja Master is a little more complex. NINM does not gain offense as much anymore, almost coming to a complete stop. But defense and speed go through the roof, sometimes getting more turns than slower characters and enemies. NINM also gets a huge mp gain compared to the mediocre mp build of the Ninja. NINM also can use Katanas, which have higher offense then swords and also can cause random side effects including instant death, poison, blind, and Hdrain (health drain).

Hagane - THIF (uses only small daggers), SWDR (Shadow Dancer) [NINJ (Katon, Rajin), NINM (Ninja Master [can use Katana weapons that are stronger than swords) (Katon, Rajin, Smoke [raises dodge], Kamakazi (causes 2X the remaining health of character to a single enemy at lvl1-2, lvl 3 hits harder and lvl 4 hits multiple enemies. Cannot gain XP but raising is FREE at church!)

Brohm - WARR, GLDR, BRN (can use Swords AND Axes but loose some defense but gain more mobility and offense), WLRD (War Lord [can use Lances, Swords, Axes, Spears, and Bows [[can only get 2 square distance unlike archers who can get a max of 3-4) and gain more defense than BRN but loose movement.[excludes katanas, assault shells, and staves])


We are going with the 4 tier system.

Anyway, I am proud to introduce to you some of the music that has been made over the past month for this game. ^^

Do note that they are on mega upload and just bare with that hideous website. Thanks. ^^ (I spent some good time on them, so I really hope you like them and I could use feedback!)

-Pavane for Princess Aurianna - Not to reveal too much of the story this piece is a processional for one who has passed on. ^^ Sorry, too hard to keep it secret. ^^
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ACV1VRSV

-Castle Town Theme - This is an interesting piece. A fanfare theme with the playful tune of a village outside the walls. So, a little more busy then a small town should be felt in it. ^^
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2D32LHCW

-World Theme - Well, this is pretty obvious. ^^
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AOKUTCK0

- A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Tavern - The silly theme when something silly is happening. Obviously. ^^ As serious as a fantasy game is, there should always be some playful music in it. ^^
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1BFYJUZS

SF had a 2 tier system and with a secondary option for promotion upon provision of a special item. I guess I said it wrong, lol. But now that I think about it, it would be interesting to have just a 3 tier instead of a 4 tier and the 4th tier is optional. Again, something that needs more discussion amongst the artists. I know that they dont want to spend TOO much of their life making one character 4 times. So I assured them that the 4th secret promotion will not be available to ALL classes.

I really want to have characters with more INVOLVEMENT in the story. That is one thing that kind of detoured me from SF games after the first run through of the game. You have a handful of characters that are involved in the plot... the rest are, in a sense, just meat punching bags that join you for the sake of saving the world...

So, in this newly developing storyline I want to be able to introduce a more character involved storyline. HQ quotes to me would be paramount and should change as the scenario changes. I.E. Mae from SF 1 had a good reason to join, but when you confront Kain only the immediate leads really got a word in. I think that there could have been more drama if characters that had a relationship to the incidents caused by Darksol and to have this antagonist utter back to them something distasteful and, perhaps, even sinister about how he felt about his actions.

Anyway, it is a way to contribute more towards story. You see this done much better in SF3 but still, it is in spoonfuls and some characters seemed to phase out, which suprised me because they had the least amount of characters in  each scenario than SFCD/Gaidens, SF1, and SF2. So holding a character interaction should not have been as hard, I would have thought anyway. lol

As far as the Desoul spell goes... it is clear that in SF3 it was the luck stat that determined the outcome of the spell. One luck against another. I still feel that this was the case in older games, just the luck stat was not a base introduction nor did it ever grow so why put it in the basic statistics if it doesnt change. Best way to find out is to see each characters susceptibility to the Desoul spell. If you see a variance, then hit has something to do with two sources of code talking to each other to make an outcome. i.e. stat/number +/- stat/number = number
number = < or = to base stat/number will cancel out Desoul effect.
number = > to base stat/number will allow Desoul effect.

Something along those lines I would assume.

Well, I talked to my team and so far half of them have played through the first one. They loved the gameplay, but felt that the music sounded like cheesy FF menu music. Also, they are all mostly Fire Emblem goons, so I had to break them of some of their premature expectations.

For the most part they liked it a little better, so I know I have snagged their interest. The  lead programmer and I are going to discuss next weekend about obtaining some source code to get an idea on how it was done, then generate some of our own ideas on it.

Things we discussed: Tri promotional system as seen in SF2 (but you do not need a special item to promote the 3rd time. Treating that 3rd promotion [possibly a secret 4th for selected characters] as a complete class change in all regards, like Slade from Thief to Ninja. i.e. Slade - Thief to Rouge to Ninja to Master Ninja; Bowie/Max Swordsman to Swordmaster to Hero [to Divine Hero])

I find the best benefit of this 3 to 4 class system is the variations of mages, priests, and warrior characters. How many of us loved the Baron class AND the Gladiator class? A concept that came to mind was a Warrior - Gladiator - Baron (axes and swords) - Warlord (axes, swords, lances and spears [or maybe just lances]). Mage - Wiz - Sorc - BattleMage. This mage leveling system is more geared towards the typical SF 2 setup BUT the BattleMage BTMG may be something that some do NOT want to have. The Sorc of course has the summons but the BTMG would have 2 Offensive spells, 1 status effect, and 1 summon spell (could have 3 offensive spells and/or 2 summon spells in place of status effect) and the BTMG physical offense and defense rise greatly per level but the mp levels slower than it did before. So that special upgrade may not be desirable.

As in all SF games you have the option to level past the first set of promotional levels and I want to continue that, to promote at your own desire after the initial promotion (i.e. Mage - Wiz) that way if you dont want to go to Sorc or Btmg you dont have to and it wont effect your gameplay dramatically. But it gives you a greater customization of your battle party. %^^ That takes care of the concern: "What if I like the wizard spells of Fire 4, Ice 4, Bolt 4 over the option of Summon spells and the BTMG?"

Again, many of these ideas are very experimental. But I figured one of the neat things about any RPG is seeing change in your characters. I find a great example outside SF is Final Fantasy 4 and 6. You see characters evolve in FF 4 (from Dark Knight to Paladin, Young Rydia to Old Rydia, Forgetful Tellah to Powerful Tellah, etc. Where you really dont see that evolution as much in FF6, though this is my own opinion.)

Anyway, as far as voice overs go that will be in the later production after a scenario and script has been made and is ready to be implemented into the game, so that could be some time, but I will keep you in mind. ^^

Hello all,

I have devoured many things that are here in "The Shining Source" and I must say I am very impressed.

A little about me: My stumbling upon Shining Force was a complete accident, and thankfully it happened. When I was younger, for a gift, my brother decided to buy me Final Fantasy 3 (VI for JP) on the super Nintendo on it's release date. Since he was a lazy bum and didn't get it he got me Shining Force 1. I played it to death only to get the SF 2 ASAP.

Anyway, I work for a group of home brew gamers, about 20 of us in all. I have written the storyline for a demo game, but I am the sound engineer for the larger part. It has been my dream to make a SF game, but within the rest of the members of our small studio, not one of them have ever played an SF game. I have tortured them into playing SF 1, 2, and CD, which guided me into winning their affection towards this amazing series of games.

So, while we are creating a generic turn based RPG (like Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, Etc) we are looking into starting a tactical rpg but in the nature of Shining Force. I have been selected to compose the story, basic game play, music, as well as cast for voice acting etc... ^^

For this, I want to inquire what many of you, some of this series biggest fans, would like to see. As far as programming goes we are aiming to stay traditional. But things like unique stats and special classes that have not been introduced. Anything you would ask would be inquired.

Anyway, off that subject. I am glad to see so many fellow fans working desperately, with such great talents, to keep this game style alive. I would like to offer my talents and information as a sound engineer to answer any questions you have about music, voice audio, and sound effects.

Thanks ^^

~Maestro