The Shining Source

Hi Y'all
I'm new to Ye Olde Blah, and just wanted to say hailo.

I've played SF1&2 a bunch of times, and was instantly addicted when I first started.  I've played every now and again, just because I had nothing else to do, and since SF is such a great game to just sit and play whenever you feel the urge.

Earlier this year, I came open The Shining Source website.  Having always wanted to see another Shining Force sequel, I was instantly drawn into the site.  I've wanted for a long time to create a game close to being even in the same galaxy as the original SF games, but couldn't really find the time to learn any sort of programming languages.  Now that I do have time, I can't seem to find any way to actually learn these languages.

On the other hand, I have conjured up a very captivating storyline for the game I hope to start making.  I have other "Shining Fans", who happen to be good friends of mine, that have decided to lend a hand in making this game.  Unfortunatly, none of them no programming languages either.  I have my storyline pretty much finnished, along with some other various things that I'm going to add to my game, such as character portraits, sprites, and other things.  Mostly graphic and sound related.  Hopefully, I'll manage to learn some sort of programming language, even if it takes me years to do so.

I've played SO, and found it to be very good.  As works in progress are, it has its ups and downs, but I really, really hope to see updates soon.  Other than that, I'd just like to say to those who have ideas for SF fan games, get movin' now, or you'll end up regreting it, like me.

I hope to see many more fan works that are as excellent as SO, and I thank everyone at The Shining Source for their encouragment toward reluctant game makers.

Hello Noma, welcome to the (quietly active?) SF fangame scene. If it seems like no ones talking much, it's because they're all too hard at work on their respective games. Really.
Well, lots of luck and skill be with you in your desire to make an SF game. One thing to be careful of: while you have all your story sorted, and it sounds like graphics and sounds are fairly under control too, it is very important to make your core engine - all the nitty gritty technical details like AI, items, damage calculators etc. Whichever programming language/tool you settle on, all of this is unavoidable. Basically, don't get overwhelmed by it, just take it bit by bit, and ask many questions on this wonderful board if you are stuck. I'm waiting for the day where I can get this bloody battle engine finished, and start work on implementing the story...  

You know what the sad thing is?
There too many people with ideas and too few people with skills.
No offense intended but when you take a look at gamedev.net forums you'll encounter dozens of ideas that rott because they are looking for programmers. Next to that half of the remaining projects are done by programmers who lake decent artists and stuff....
finally add the people that bash those working on projects because the graphics ain't as good as they should be, the music didn't match there taste or just because they ain't finish and you know why most projects (no only in the Shining world) die unfinished
It seems to be a vicious circle......

Nevertheless this year might become the Shining fangame year considering the progress of SHining Valor, Dark Resurrection and the return of SO.... So there is light at the end of the tunnel (even tho it might just be an incoming train).

Anyways back to your project - as nobody of you as any programming language I guess it would be a good thing to team up with some experienced programmer - not sure you will find someone here as most people that are able to programm are already busy with their own project and again most of those already have a storyline they would not give up.
So as the same counts for you I suggest to go the second but best way which would be to use at least a game development kit like Blitz Basic which avoids that you get lost in details so I guess that the learning curve will be rather high.

Next to that keep in mind that programming a complex RPG is a long exausting process - even if you work as hard as you can I would not expect to finish a project in less than a year. And it won't be a fun year but a year with a real bunch of setbacks and downs. It requires quite a bunch of strength even if you are used to that (and I guess each programmer is used to that). So keep the head up and don't give in. Good look!

oh yes... you're quite right there!

Heh, I guess I've had it good, DSC is about a year old on Byond, and alot has been done and has probably over 6-8 hours of playability even if your good at mazes. I'm hoping to finish it early next year at the latest, even with just silly young me working on it, unless I go totaly silly and plan to double the number of quests and stuff to do ( which I'll probably end up doing... ).

Almost finished ace??? That'd be a first - a finished SF fangame...time to bust out the bubbly - or the orange juice for those of you under the legal limit of wherever u live...
I think that first SV demo took most of a year, on and off, to do...hmm, not really much to show for a year I spose. Ideally in a few months I'll have heaps more to show.

Thanks for the encouragment.  I have looked for a programmer to give some help, but most programmers haven't even an inkling of what SF is.  Even so, I'm am desperatly trying to get in as much work as possible on ideas for my "core engine", as McPhisto called it, so that if I DO find an interested programmer, I'll be well prepared.

I agree with you bEn.  As I said, not many people or interested (or have even heard of) SF, and those who do lack programming skills.  Hopefully, my so called "friends" will get off the couch, clean their greesy faces, take a shower, and start helping me look for a decent programmer.

I know that I have some "hardships" to endure during my game-making process, and I'm ready for them.  Might sound pretty stupid coming from someone who has hardly started, but I'm not the type to drop a project and run.

have you tried the game creator? ... i used to use this when i was a kid... erm.. there's flash also. djobi did a wicked project called 'shining flash' back in the old days.

the thing about programming is it isn't difficult to learn.. or find the tools to enable toy to progrmam (java is free) - it's the amount of time it takes to describe what you want to do and the sheer quantity of stuff you need to specify.

What has happened to Shining Flash? I suddenly noticed its absence...

Yeh, some game creator tool could be easier to get into...I won't plug MMF again, coz Im not sure how easy people find it use. Other people sometimes mention RPG Maker, and how it could be brought around to make an SF game...no idea about that, ive never tried it out myself.

Rpg Maker? Really? Even if you complete the whole custom battle engine, the game will still be like shit...

Now the first programming language i learned was Dark Basic. The help files that come with the program are absolutely amazing. But there a lot of other languages that you can find tutorials lying around every corner of the web. A great language for you to use(not sure it's a good one for beginners) it's C++. You can find C++ tutorials, books, everything. I myself do not know anything of C++, so I can't explain a thing.

Anyway, welcome to the forum(damn I'm not the newbie around here anymore)

Why I would avoid C++/Java/Visual Basic/Delphi/...:
You have to programm your own graphic and sound core - depending on you wishes this is acceptable (like 2D and Delphi are supposed to work nicely together) but it it takes time you should use for planning the core. Another reason is that good object oriented programming needs a hell of practice before you should use it for such a big project. Believe me - I have been programming in a real bunch of languages for the last 10 years and I am still not sure that I have the right skills to make a clean approach.

Again I'd suggest a system that provides you with the basics and allows you to concentrate on the real stuff - I guess Ty and Peter van Dalen use such systems and they seem to be rather successful.
Same counts for MMF and McPhisto.

Good luck again  

I've tried using Game Maker, and its very easy to understand, but almost impossible to do many of the SF essentials.  I used to use RPG Maker, but, as M07hM4n said, most of the RPG Maker stuff is pretty cappy.

I guess I'm going to have to give some of this stuff a try before I go programmer hunting.  My friends are slowly (and I mean slowly) getting into the hang of actually doing something.  RJ, my closest friend, has taken on the task of depixelating some of the character portraits.  Other than that, my team of lazy, mishapen, toads have only just begun.

Can you guys give me a few ideas for what I would be best for me to start with?  In other words, what should I use in place of a programming language (so far, I think I'm going to try Dark Basic).

Multimedia Fusion! Go to www.clickteam.com to download this amazing and versatile program...
Altho it'll still require a fair amount of effort to get familiar with it...but maybe it'll produce more instantaneous results than a programming language.

Great choice. The first "real" language I learned. If you are experienced with rpg maker, then the programming will be easy for you, since rpg maker may be crappy but it teaches you some great concepts of programming logic.

But there is a downside I forgot to mention: Dark Basic works like shit with 2d graphics. Or I'm not able to make it work fast with them. Anyway, a simple game i designed once took 2 seconds to refresh the screen. BUT I was a noob when I did that, so it could be that I simply fucked up the whole code.

You may try to contact dark basic support, they may have more info into 2d programming. Or in the dbp forums, in their website: www.darkbasicpro.com

McPhisto, I won't say a thing about MMF now, but when I learn it... Be prepared!

I saw in your "3d Shining Force" forum that you mentioned how bad 2d worked when using Dark Basic.  I'm now having second thoughts, but I'll try it out anyway.  I'm big on trying anything possible to get the job done.  (And I'm not saying everyone else isn't)

I downloaded the demo version of MMF but I haven't really taken a good look at it yet.  I know what it could do after playing Shining Valor, and the program looks very promising because of what I had seen in this work-in-progress.